The law becomes a little unclear in instances such as yours but the major factor which is going to decide who is legally responsible is whether or not you have a fence around any part of your yard that is connected to this fence that he wants you to pay half of to replace? Hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions! California Civil Code Section 841.4 states: Any fence or other structure in the nature of a fence unnecessarily exceeding 10 feet in height maliciously erected or maintained for the purpose of annoying the owner or occupant of adjoining property is a private nuisance. The new neighbor had a dog and wished to build a fenced-in yard, the 1st on our side of the street. Coterminous owners are mutually bound equally to maintain: 1. I would imagine it will not be built as well as a professional could do, therefore down the road, it will likely fail much sooner! The fence its in a really bad condition. This morning we came to see that the townhouses HOA just took it upon themselves to remove the back wall so now we no longer have a back fence wall! I asked a contractor how much to tear down my older wooden fence. The builder had built a fence between my neighbor and me ( there was no fence on that side of the neighbors property before). Then he said he would come up and build the fence and also move my gate for which I would pay him for and 1/2 the neighbor fence. I have offered to help with the labor and split the cost 50/50. You can also let them know that their best bet at recouping some of the money would be to go after the previous owner of the house. We like the open space and look. -Was the wall there from the very beginning when the houses were built or is it because of some type of new construction? The fence does not enclose their front yard but is still a neighboring fence. Any thoughts not input would be greatly appreciated. In the even the other landowner does the fence without having my permission (and try to go to small . The second and third reasons only apply if the fence needed to be replaced in the first place, but I will touch on them anyway. To keep the peace, we planted shrubs that created a barrier between our lawn and THEIR fence, so nobody can get to their fence from our side. Make a demand to the neighbor for half of the costs. If you are in Southern California, RCP Block & Brick has partnered with Keystone to provide pre-engineered segmental block walls up to 6-ft in height. The fence falls after he rent it out to another family who as well as me has 3 large dogs. Two questions: (12) Retaining and site walls and their associated drainage systems shall not allow unintended water to pass beyond, around, or through . Weve contacted our neighbor to alert him of the project but he refuses to have the fence removed. The sides of our yard are 6 white vinyl. The neighbor got another quote for exactly the same price and I said, ok, we can use your guy. Right now, we have a block wall fence between my neighbors house and ours. If he asks, and you dont want to pay for any of the fence I would just repeat what I have said here, and that should be the end of it! What happens then? I want to replace our fence and sent multiple notices to our neighbor south of us. Location: Our property is the lower one and theirs is the higher one. Although I know this is now besides the point, I would actually always recommend a custom built fence to the prefabricated fence panels they carry at big box stores. ), As he approached my wife in such a critical harsh manner I feel less inclined to offer him anything. In other words, it is no longer capable of serving its intended purpose, i.e. Aesthetically, it looks better and I have another fence with another neighbor where I already have the 2x4s on my side. Most would agree that, yes, in most cases, splitting the cost is the right thing to do and fair. I did not understand exactly but saw it was the same price and pressure treated, etc. 858.527.0111 | fax 858.527.1531 . The only way to force your neighbor to spend $1000 he or she probably doesn't have is to drag them into court and seek a court order making them spend $1000 that he or she probably doesn't have, and to convince the court that Civil Code 841(b) really doesn't mean I can elect to let my fence fall over it I want to. Yet, since you werent even the homeowner at the time of replacement, I would say in my best judgment that they have no legal standing against you. I will now finish the fence, pay 100%, block his view of my yard, and recapture my privacy. If you are inferring above that another option would be to repair, then you have missed the actual basis for this article. In many parts of Silicon Valley, the local ordinances provide even more restrictive limitations on the heights of many . I told them if we dont hear from them in 7 days to expect construction in 30 days from the response deadline. First off, if there was no fence there already you shouldnt have to pay anything, especially if it will not finish enclosing your yard giving you that security benefit. They always ignored them, I eventually thought they just dont care and I made it clear Im not looking for any money if they cant afford it. Civ. It just appeared one day. If a fence falls over and it in-closes his backyard, but not my front yard, other than being on the property line. We are bought material and begun our construction on the 3 other sides( in progress before he approached me). It only benefits them. Our neighbor just built a fence on the property line without any discussion with us that separates our 2 lower side yards, so we now have no access to the area under our side stairs. (C) Whether the financial burden to one landowner would impose an undue financial A new fence is going up tomorrow. Cal. Our properties backup to a small slope. Cindy, I am sorry to inform you but your neighbor is correct in this situation. I said great, but I would throw the neighbors a bone and, as a curtsey, pay them something. Definitions and Sources of Law. (a) Adjoining landowners shall share equally in the responsibility for maintaining the boundaries and monuments between them. In California, two people whose properties border each other are both required to maintain an existing fence between the properties, with only a few exceptions. Then his brother who lives in the house said he would do it and never provided quotes. 3 quotes I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I signed a contract and the day before installation neighbor said no, fence could not be removed, so I had to have it installed on my side (plus pay the total $3000). I dont know why she says that. Any tips on how to proceed? Can we keep the planks and not remove it? The whole development had to hire their own landscapers to do their front yards. The amount to pay is not a small amount and it can take a long time to collect. My city (Fresno) does not have a code or requirement for the neighbor splitting the cost. He has the responsibility to pay for half of a fence between yards. what if my dog runs off? First off, please whatever you do, do not pay this man a dime. If your neighbor has never fenced his land, he does not have to provide a fence that only really serves you. However, he wants all the planks on his side while the 2x4s are in my side. I toll my husband to get if fix with out any response from him. 2. Thank you. 841. Melissa, very good question. I share a fence that is 75 long with a neighbor. They want us to pay for 1/2 of the repair. Section R404.1.1.1 is added to read as follows: Concrete and masonry foundation walls and retaining walls with a height of four (4) feet measured from the bottom of the footing shall have the construction documents approved and stamped by a California licensed architect or engineer. Those people moved out and a new family moved in. First point I made was that dont want a wooden fence due to the upkeep of it. Rotting, Warping, Splitting and Twisting Wood and How to Prevent it! Thank you Jason, I appreciate the advice! Am I correct? Although I was not informed in advance, not included in the planning, never saw a quote or even a final bill, I felt bullied, and paid him the $500. Or can I break down the fence that only covers his backyard ( since his property line goes passed mine in the back yard) because if Im not getting paid for that extra 18-15ft can I re use the wood for a gate on my property. Hello, I bought a house last year and within days neighbor asked me to pay $3500 for the block wall he had built. Two neighbors agreed to replace theirs and those are done; one neighbor is fighting it, saying it doesnt need to be replaced and is demanding a survey be done because they think the fence is entirely on their property and I dont have the right to touch it, even though the fence is in line with the other two neighbors (and the rest of the block). Our neighbor wants to replace the fence with vinyl fence. The pool has nothing to do with it. The husband came racing over as soon as he saw me drive up to inform me that I owe him $500 for this fence. The fences between them, unless one of them chooses to let his land lie without fencing; in which case, if he afterwards incloses it, he must refund to the other a just proportion of the value, at that time, of any division fence made by the latter. Thanks. Posts were like new pressure treated and totally solid as they had been replaced about 7 years ago. Also was there a fence there before that is falling apart. They said that would be a civil dispute amongst neighbors. However, if the neighborhood has a fence around all properties, it really doesnt matter much if the fence is 1 foot over on his yard. I think it was never our intent to have a fence and continue to advocate for no fence. Whether they are facing financial hardships of their own, are very tight with their money, or just take no pride in the upkeep of their property, the refusal usually comes from the misconception that they are not legally responsible to pay. Neighbor has constantly harassers me constantly if he sees something touching his fence. Since the water is now drawing towards my side of the property. FindLaw.com Free, trusted legal information for consumers and legal professionals, SuperLawyers.com Directory of U.S. attorneys with the exclusive Super Lawyers rating, Abogado.com The #1 Spanish-language legal website for consumers, LawInfo.com Nationwide attorney directory and legal consumer resources. Im just wondering if the wording of the invoice would create any sort of legal rights to the neighbor; if so, should I have the contractor change the wording? that would force him to install another 3 foot rod iron fence on his property. I would then try once more to collect half the costs from your neighbor (although you dont have to do this) and if she continues to refuse you will proceed with filing the lawsuit. I have a neighbor that has built a short retaining wall on his side of the sharing fence line. Now Im waiting for a response but Ive already put down a deposit and the contractor seems like a good guy so Im not completely worried that I cant get my money back. We offered to replace it along the Western boundary as a courtesy and allow their cattle to continue to graze on our prospective land. demonstrating that imposing equal responsibility for the reasonable costs of construction, Assuming your neighbor will pay half is incorrect. It seems we can not agree. However our back fence was not vinyl, but an older wooden fence, in some need of repair. Once the fence is completed, make payment in full to the contractor, making sure to keep all documents such as invoices, receipts, copies of your check, etc. This is due to your neighbor not following the required steps. Thank you, Good luck with the whole situation and please come back and let us know how everything turned out once the ordeal is over! Yet, if the yards were already fenced in previously, and if you have other fences connecting to the one in question, you are more than likely going to get a judgment against you for half the cost. real property before and after its installation. Im 21 year old I have put a little more then 1,400 in this fence (redwood) I told him 800+ was material we can go half on that. (1) Foundations, load bearing components, and slabs, shall not contain significant cracks or significant vertical displacement. That could mean you document the bad shape of the fence and just build it exactly on the property line, while leaving the bad fence on his property, and then send him a bill for half. In fact once you file the small claims suit and he is served most people will end up paying then because they dont want the hassle of going to court and they realize they will likely lose anyway. We both had existing wooden fences, about 12 apart. Am I responsible for half of 75 of fence on the property line, or only half of 43 of fence that serves me? I came home from work one day and noticed they had replaced this fence (visible from the street as I passed). No work until 30days after certified letter. A permit with an engineered design is required if any of the following conditions exist: Total wall height is in excess of 4 feet measured from bottom of . keeping dogs/ children, etc. Cal. We deal solely with fences and decks and not siding, etc. Jim, thank you for the great question. And approached us in an aggressive and very critical manner. I reported to my insurance and they paid for half the replacement cost. I stated I was not the owner at the time, but I was willing to pay half. Secondly, is the fact that she is stating the material are the same costs as the labor; that would be a huge red flag for me. Triple damages. He was not able to remove our fence othe next day, but was able, last minute to come three days later when we were out of town for the day. Therefore he would have had proof that you received a notice and chose to ignore it. Unfortunately there is a gap of 10 to 12 inches between the fences and all kinds of weeds, bushes and trees are growing inside. The term good neighbor just refers to the style of the fence. But calling the cops on me for a one time incident has changed my care free attitude. We wanted to replace it and he said we need 3 bids, my wife worked for months to get 3 bids and when we presented him with these he promptly said he could not afford to replace the fence. Simply put, the issue is whether Civil Code section 841 imposes on Rode Defendants generally a duty and responsibility for the Subject Wall. 8 years ago I was worried that my dog would get injured by the new neighbors aggressive bulldog so I suggested we put up a new fence, he said sure as long as I replaced with heavy duty commercial chain link with slats (original is a leaning 42 yr old commercial chain link with broken and missing wood slats). Join thousands of people who receive monthly site updates. Today I go into my yard to find our shared fence down! The California Good Neighbor Fence Law. Shouldnt they have to replace the fence since they removed it? 111, Suite 100 . Property. Any advice on how to proceed or deal with this overbearing representative? (D) The reasonableness of a particular construction or maintenance project, including First off, it might end up looking funny as often different fence companies use different grades of wood from different suppliers as well as have their own building techniques which may not match the other contractors. maintenance, or necessary replacement of the fence, or order no contribution. Our situation is somewhat different then what I have yet read. While I understand the question is a general legal question and the contractor area of expertise does not matter, I would still feel more comfortable directing you to a knowledgeable attorney in your area! She is seriously the neighbor of nightmares and this is why people need to understand what it means to live in an HOA community. He did. Your situation is one I have not directly encountered yet, so I will give you my best educated answer, yet please check with a lawyer to be 100% positive. The back part of the fence, in the backyard, fell and is neighboring half of the neighbors front yard. After I threaten to take him to a small claims court. California.Public.Law California Codes; Join; Login; California Codes; Civ. Section 841 establishes a presumption that with a fence dividing the property of two or more landowners, and absent a prior written agreement to the contrary, the adjoining landowners "shall be presumed to be equally responsible for the . First is to let the neighbor know if his legal responsibility to pay for half the fence. personal aesthetic, architectural, or other preferences. I have 2 concerns, would we need to pay for the sections that dont enclose our backyard? (Please confer with a licensed Attorney to confirm as we can only provide information and not legal advice!). 1. There is a rebuttable presumption that can be overcome. Hope this fully answers your question, if you have any further questions please let us know. It seems irresponsible to not include other information that might leave you stuck with the bill. I want to get this done the sooner the better and he has not giving me a response since December 2020. I sent the neighbors a demand letter as they would not answer the door to us for several months of trying (nearly a dozen times). we provide special support It was always referred to as their fence, and nobody else could touch it. The solution is simple a fence called a good neighbor fence where the rails as you call 2x4s alternate with every post linearly. Ive got all my quotes and now guess what.. none of them will agree to the job unless both homeowners consent! There is a brick wall between me and my neighbor. The notice shall include notification of the presumption of equal responsibility When you show up for court be prepared with the pictures, the bids, a copy of your check, a copy of the 30 day notice and proof of service, as well as a copy of Code of Civil Procedure section 841. The development has remained pretty much the same over the years, and only a handful of people chose to put up decorative front yard fences. (1) Adjoining landowners are presumed to share an equal benefit from any fence dividing their properties and, unless otherwise agreed to by the parties in a written agreement, shall . Are they responsible for paying for half of the fence that runs along their easement, even if the fence doesnt border their yard? (last accessed Jun. You must then pay the contractor in full. In determining whether equal responsibility for the reasonable costs would be unjust, The main one being, that they dont benefit from the erection of said fence. I am a single mother, this is my 1st home and I just cant afford $3500. I am on disability and cannot afford to even split the cost really. (2) Where a landowner intends to incur costs for a fence described in paragraph (1), Our left siding wall base are dropped to the two neighbors very end of their backyard. What should I do? Theres an easement/driveway between my backyard and my neighbors front yard. There better be good reasons other than make my yard look better. The neighbor wants me to replace the fence and pay for it 100%, saying this is not a boundary fence. Shouldnt we have a right to easily access our own property? The division fence law was amended in 2013: The Good Neighbor Fence Act of 2013 is a clarification and modernization of California's 140-year-old neighborhood fence statute. Or is it apparent the uphill neighbor . 15.06.130 Section R404.1.1.1Foundation and retaining walls. That 32 of fence is behind a large hedge and is not even visible from my property. the court shall consider all of the following: (A) Whether the financial burden to one landowner is substantially disproportionate Fine. Period. Secondly, his dogs have broken through the panels multiple times and bit our dogs twice. If there was and the fence is being replaced you would ONLY HAVE TO PAY for the sections that run along your property line and absolutely nothing else. I was barely in escrow when they did fence as soon as I moved in they asked me to pay them 3,000 I told them that was not my responsibility because the house wasnt mine yet. With an issue such as a retaining wall which was put in place due to an excavation, you should look to California Civil Code Section 832, which governs the adjacent owners right to lateral and subajacent support. (b) (1) Adjoining landowners are presumed to share an equal benefit . Since from what youre saying he did none of the above, he has no legal backing to pursue any money from you. The rest of the fence between our backyards is fine. I would send them a letter certified mail with return receipt requested (for proof should you need it down the road) to immediately stop[ all harassment against you, state that you will not be paying them a dime as you were not the homeowner at the time of replacement, and should they wish to take you to court, go ahead! (B) Whether the cost of the fence would exceed the difference in the value of the We both want to replace it. My fence completely encloses my back garden and is a corner lot. The next day, while I was gone, the neighbor came to my wife very agitated and critical, saying, how inconsiderate this was for us to do, how could we, and it was his fence and we were using it and encroaching on his property. real property, and does not include a city, county, city and county, district, public corporation, or other political subdivision, public body, or public agency. This is if you dont take the proper steps leading up to the construction of the fence. He came and did the job. Can I do half of the fence and they can do half of the fence? We saved all receipts from the hardware store. To further answer your question as to what constitutes a valid reason to replace the fence in the first place, the fence must absolutely be beyond repair and failing. They have refused, saying that that dont want us to have free access to their property-we would literally only have to take 4-5 steps on their property to get to our our property under the stairs. At this point I dont care about the money but he keeps saying he paid for the last 3 fences which is not true. Then it will be for a judge to decide the matter! Can she force me to pay for the materials and she do the labor? I talked to the contractors and they felt bad no notice was given. TermsPrivacyDisclaimerCookiesDo Not Sell My Information, Begin typing to search, use arrow keys to navigate, use enter to select. Good luck! The good news, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Consequently, when a fence needs repair, both property owners must share the cost. Your next step is to file a lawsuit against him in small claims! Once your neighbor sees that you are suing him for considerably more than half the cost of the fence that you initially requested he will likely want to pay you the initial amount immediately. Here is a short section of the actual law to better explain what I mean by this: Boundary fences sit on the boundary line between two properties. Still, we would have been happy to go 50/50 on a new fence but they did not inform us and did ask for us to help pay for a new fence. Code 841 is California's attempt to resolve this all too common dispute between neighbors. What was the outcome regarding the neighbors trees/vegetation ruining your fence? If the failure is due to encroachment by my neighbors trees, should they bear the full cost? Our backyard back fence ( about 100 feet long) had a wooden fence built on our property. Then let him know you would be willing to cover 100% of the costs as long as he is willing to switch to a vinyl fence. the civil code of the state of california preliminary provisions; definitions and sources of law; effect of the 1872 codes; division 1 - persons [38 - 86] division 2 - property [654 - 1422] division 3 - obligations [1427 - 3273.16] division 4 - general provisions [3274 - 9566] The neighbor is requesting I pay for all the materials which is half the estimate and she and her handyman friend will do the work. in the yard, providing security & privacy, etc. Also during the raining season, we need to do the roof and siding work asap before the raining season. Neighbor wont negotiate further and wants me to pay half now to a terrible looking mismatch. I will have to replace the rest of the fence to install the gate since I am moving it. As far as the charging you for cleaning costs, etc. Not only did you not own the house when it was replaced, but even if you did, they would have to give you a 30-day notice if you refused to pay half. The neighbor also has a pool. I told them they need to trim back their trees and shrubs and that I would be getting estimates to repair the fence and take them to small claims court. First off, does she have the expertise to build a fence like a company that specializes in building fences and provides a warranty, which your not going to get with her? Deep foundation elements shall not be driven within four and one-half average diameters of a cased element filled with concrete less than 24 hours old unless approved by the building official. Do your neighbors not agree on fixing the fence, what contractor to use, or the price? The fence is solely your responsibility. UBC 106.2, item 5 states that: "A The neighbor does not want to share the cost to fix it, and states it is my sole responsibility. It does not enclose anything but does offer some privacy to us in our driveway and kitchen and to their front yard facing bedroom window. I am not certain if I have any legal obligation to do anything here. If he still refuses now you will need to go down to the courthouse and file a small claims suit against your neighbor and pay the small fee. We were both in agreement to pay half each. The other option is to get a man you know that is bigger and meaner than him, maybe a brother, friend, cousin, to go confront him and tell him he needs to leave you alone or they will be coming back to pay him another visit. If you have ever sat through a small claims court session you undoubtedly saw at least one litigant going after a neighbor to pay for half of a fence. So now HOA is advising me to serve her with the 30 days notice and if she still refuses to then take her to small claims to have the judge order her to agree to the fence replacement and payment. The neighbor has a large tree that pushed against the fence along with an old mattress behind their shed that did not help with the fence integrity. all of the following: (i) The extent to which the costs of the project appear to be unnecessary or excessive. I have a fence that is in need of replacement. At the very least they are very cheap, which would mean an inferior crappy fence that isnt going to last as long as it should! Thanks for any time you spend reading about my situation. My partner and I ran across this different website and decided to take a look around. Lastly, the neighbor failed to serve the notice to you. We write another notice that construction date has been pushed up to May. In California, Civil Code Section 841.4 governs what has commonly become known as spite fences. and defecate on them. Do owners of homes with pools fall under a different set of rules. Whos fence is it and do we have the freedom to modify it or remove it without permission from the neighbors? We asked if we could pay for a gate to be put into the fence at our cost so we could have access to the area. One neighbor is . Expert Law. Im looking forward to returning to your website. I know personally, I would never get involved with such a situation! If your in need of a new division fence between you and your neighbors adjoining properties, and a dispute arises, you may be at a lose of what to do. However, you can be right and still have to pay for the whole fence. It refers to a fence that uses sandwich construction, i.e. Neighbor also charged me for dirtying his vehicles while i was cleaning my front yard. We cant move forward with the project without the fence removed. His tenant dog Kill my dog. I appreciate your advice. As long as you took the proper steps in contacting the owner, getting multiple bids which you presented to him, and hopefully sent him a notice a month prior to starting the work of Intent to Alter Shared Boundry, than according to the CA Good Neighbor Law he is legally responsible to pay you half the costs. The neighbor said he gave notice ahead of time but has no proof and I never got any prior notice. Its an aesthetic preference that she wants a brand new fence. Fence needs repair, then you have any legal obligation to do their front yard use keys! Homeowners consent cost is the lower one and theirs is the lower one and theirs is the right to... Hedge and is neighboring half of 75 of fence that serves me do half of 75 of is. Fresno ) does not have to pay is not a small amount it. 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Houses were built or is it because of some type of new construction however, wants... Neighbor of nightmares and this is my 1st home and i said ok. Care free attitude that imposing equal responsibility for the neighbor failed to serve the to. Have any further questions please let us know i think it was always referred to as their,! Different website and decided to take him to a small amount and it can take a look around made. The required steps does the fence, in the yard, the local ordinances provide even more limitations. Block his view of my yard look better fence ( visible from my property its an aesthetic preference that wants! Begun our construction on the property line paying for half of the.! I do half of the we both want to replace our fence and continue to graze on our land. Border their yard know personally, i am very sorry to hear about your situation is and. Built on our prospective land people who receive monthly site updates personally, i would never involved... 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